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And to do it using the lame excuse that one is trying to speak the truth and warn others is to be blind to ones true motives. Those who have ears will hear, those who have eyes will see. Vancouver, BC I was still reading his blog almost daily when it all transpired, and can remember it not sitting well with me after hearing his explanations. Whether or not they actually desire her destruction, or are simply operating in ignorance, is of no bearing on the present matter whatsoever. Thomas Paprocki. (1) This is the price for full communion, There is no such thing as partial communion. EWTN's Raymond Arroyo recently interviewed two priests of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter (FSSP): Fr. It can happen from a negative event; that is, when someone or something becomes threatened in such a way that forces us to look at it with the attention it deserves. Fr. Liturgical Guides to the Seasons Having said that, it is a bit disappointing having come to the knowledge that full disclosure on this site has given, to know that Fr. Youre free to believe so if youd like, but I dont. Wolfe was not the pastor at Mater Dei, but rather the Parochial Vicar and Assistant Pastor; a man who Mr. Carroll clearly idolized. marian, Besides its probable connection to ChurchMilitant.coms zeal against the SSPX, the unraveling of Fisher More College (the presidents fiscal leadership aside) is a stark study just how quickly Church power will coalesce to suppress an institution whose express mission is Traditional Catholic Formation (unless of course the institution was grandfathered in and has swallowed every conciliar tenet proffered since grandfather died). It answers a lot of questions I had in my mind. Ive never described myself as an expert on Vatican Council II, but Michael Voris has described me as such, on air, and even ribbed me in a good natured way saying We dont do false humility here when I resisted the idea. His first Mass in Seattle will be on Sunday, October 5th and it will be a sung Mass. While a routine and discipline are important (assuming these has been achieved in some measure), mindless routine and lack of discipline prey upon the vitality we, deep down, sense the Faith should inspire. But not so with you, you came forth to talk. But we preach Christ and Him crucified. This has had supplied jurisdiction written all over it from day one, and to current, and we didnt need to have the Pope tell us this, but it ought to help the royally confused like CMTV and co. that said, no Catholic at any time ought ever to turn their back on another Catholic.. The evidence is all around us. I hope for the sake of the salvation of souls and the good of the Church that the whole story is known. The clerics involved in the taken down of Fisher Moore College and these many attacks on the SSPX need to seek out an exorcist. Ive seen this story play out more than once before. You have some excellent points in your comments, but I agree with Mr. Matt on this one. Tacoma, WA Take any good news with a grain of salt when it comes from modernists. But if the situation is such that no connection whatsoever with the rest of the Church can be justified, then what you really have to be advocating is full-blown sedevacantism. It is also with the Bishops who do the ordinations for the FSSP. ********** No one here is committing the Mortal sin of Calumny here against the FSSP or Father Wolfe FSSP. What exactly is a Novus Ordo Traditionalist? Someone who favors a reform of the Reform N.O., or someone who attends a TLM as authorized under Summorum Pontificum? Kindly stop presuming everyone who reads this blog or watches CMTV has a developed awareness of the dismal state of affairs in the Church as you claim to have. Saguto, Fr. They do not understand epikeia at all it seems to me. Join Fr. Their stuff & stance is indicative of the serious problem with the FSSP-that being they are fully signed on to the Modernist Sect & are part of it. Lol.it wont be happening my friend. English-speaking Chaplain . St. Catharines, ON General Chaplain Father Stefan Reiner. He also is a member of that parish, and the words he used to describe Fr. For the person who knows that the Council is a grave danger to the faith, they have no problem advising against them allowing themselves (and their kids) to be formed in an FSSP parish since we have an obligation to engage those things that threaten to lead us away from the faith. He is in control, and our fidelity in things both small and large is what obtains for us the supernatural insights into His very life and designs. Catholics are STILL watching and waiting. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth. Tyler, TX That reality is irrelevant to the objective errors of the FSSP which are public. If you are going to give official platforms to statements rejecting the validity of Vatican II and the Pauline Missal without any public correction or disavowal, you have to be prepared to take the ecclesiastical consequences, whether theyre just or not. I witnessed their fine example of Catholic kindness, involvement & charity toward those who disagreed with them. Indeed, contrary to what some may hear about us, we sedevacantists in reality live amidst other Catholics in peace & gracious commaraderie. Servant of Our Lady, . This is the SSPX argument with respect to supplied jurisdiction. Im happy to let people know what led me to the place where I currently stand. Calgary, AB The clown Masses, the lack of faith on the part of leaders, the abuses, the watered-down catechesis, the lesbian nuns, the gay priests, the destruction of the Faith by religious orders, and on and on. Thank you for discussing it. From Archbishop Bernard A. Hebda: I was notified Friday, November 8 that Father Gerard Saguto, FSSP, was recalled from his assignment as pastor of the Church of All Saints in Minneapolis by his religious community, the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. It was sent in by a parishoner when the FSSP got the personal parish. Pastor of Queen of the Holy Rosary in Vienna. Its quite true that President King inherited a very bad financial situation. Tyler, TX Alarico, thank you for bringing this to my attention. (Ive read more of his ramblings than I care to acknowledge.). what does matter , though, is if they adhere to the teachings of the Church. I know a fair number of Fraternity priests, and they are among the finest priests I have ever met. But then again, Sister Lucia warned us; didnt she-? Weve got bigger fish to fry. I am an FSSP parishioner who travels a lot. These are the signs of an unstable mind. If sedevacantist friends or family have done that to you, or anyone, its a shame. I feel sorry for Michael Voris. They do beleive a pope can be a formal herectic and maintain his postion as pope , the new mass is valid all priests are considered vailidy ordained and the bishops in the new rite are fine aswell. Sunday Masses will . Lots of us jump in to visit Mr.V., in the midst of raising broods of children & grandchildren, juggling this and that, including old age & a long time witnessing the collapse since before 1963 for example. Saskatoon, SK marian I was there in the pew EVERY time. That photo credit is Fr. This is not the place to debate the sedavacantist position. Little Rock, AR He is EVIL. john6 FUNERAL HOMES. Mr Carroll has turned ChurchMilitant.com into his Ideological Toy. The threats certainly have increased in intensity in recent years; even the lukewarm Christian can sense this and perhaps feels the need to join in the resistance and push back. Saguto was removed for violating rules about not being alone with a minor apparently. MEMORIALS. Following post talks about SSPX censorship of sermon criticizing Francis: Dear piokolbe and/or radtrad, Quite honestly, few of us can giggle today, no? We assume they are coming from a position of the Faithbut theyre not. But as a sedevacantist myself, that excuse does not fly. If Ratzinger is leading people to hell, denying the divinity of Jesus Christ, contradicting Jesus Christ (re: valid covenant of Jews) and committing sacrilege, Ratzinger is NOT good. Furthermore, I do agree that Louies blog and the comments that follow are an excellent vehicle for enlightenment during these dark times. This is a bit off topic, but are you aware of why Fr Flood is no longer in charge of the N American FSSP? Fr. Dear de Maria, Fulton Sheen coins Him, living in the Church that seeks to unite her members and remain the constant inspiration for our holiness and mutual forgiveness. Naples, FL Sarasota, FL Colorado Springs, CO Richmond, VA Furthermore, Ive been informed that Fr. Which I know some people here do. Nevertheless, I address you here not out of disrespect, but simply because the sedevacantist position is almost always inaccurately sketched out and characterized here & elsewhere. Falling away from the Church is falling away from love of a Person, a veritable running away from the home Christ built. GOD did it 2. Regarding group #5, you said 5th group SSPX RESISTENCE 2012/2013 these are mostly priests that belong to the SSPX. They dont a one-size-fits-all approach to this topic. Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary Father Gerard Saguto, District Superior, FSSP "The thought-filled articles of Latin Mass provide an opportunity for needed reflection to help the thoughtful Catholic navigate the gauntlet of our modern secular society." Monsignor Barreiro So, what exactly will change at the stroke of twelve? 5: That we were all good people. Please keep in mind that I am speaking only for myself. Catholics who go to SSPX chapels: Are you so incredibly certain of your case that that priest is not being disobedient. Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz close friend of the FSSP and has does many ordinations for them excommunicated the SSPX in his diocese. The FSSP really is apart of the novus ordo. The archdioceses Office of Ministerial Standards brought the information related to Father Saguto to law enforcement, and law enforcement has advised us that they are not initiating a criminal investigation, the archbishop said. Denton, NE (Seminary) There is a schismatic attitude in the fact of consecrating bishops without pontifical mandate. Hope it may help someone to understand the complexity of it all. Orlando, FL Father Gerard Saguto, F.S.S.P. The details of this local conflict arent important, but what is important to know is that Fr. I disagree with you, however, that the FSSP should be avoided. We know where these attacks are coming from they are coming from the standard of Satan. As one who was there for this sermon (and many more), and class, I firmly state that he has NEVER attacked the SSPX. Sad. Regardless of how we categorize the post-conciliar popes, the Traditional movement is best served by sticking together. Whatever happens in October affects not Holy Mother Church. Its very uncatholic to pretend you belong to an exclusive club. Im surprised to see terminology used here. Domus Generalis FSSP - Chemin du Schoenberg 8 - CH-1700 Fribourg (Suisse) . Gruner was yet, so I looked past it in ignorance. Problem sorted. I'm not there often just because of distance and time of day on my bike. The early Christians were hiding from the pagans in their day, says Michael Matt in this video: Catholics are STILL watching and waiting. I must admit, I am not a typical traditionalist but have read my way through hours of debate over the defense of tradition and have come across many resources, such as this forum, that have given me a formation that I wouldnt have guessed having even just 5 years ago while still assuming that I am even to this day light years away. Orlando, FL It ended up punishing students and staff for what were, allegedly, the failings of the administration. Michael Matt interviewed him in Mexico recently, I believe. As for Michael Voris, I dont watch or follow him in any way. For once youre ranting, raving & complaining about something other than us evil sedevacantists! We can point out very effectively what is happening without name-calling, and certainly without shouting from the rooftops that this priest, this bishop, this society or association is in mortal sin mostly because we dont like what they have done in particular circumstances. Especially in light of the context in which hes stepping up his attack with the Pope extending a remarkable olive branch to Econe and disastrous developments in annulment law and the ominous maneuverings underway for the Synod Against the Family.. Whether an FSSP supporter is willing to admit it or not, he implicitly accepts the orthodoxy, legitimacy and/or intrinsic goodness of the Novus Ordo, ecumenism, religious liberty, communion in the hand, liturgical dance, server-ettes, In reality, it is far more likely the case that it was used with permission, tacit or otherwise, thanks perhaps to Terry Carroll and his Mater Dei connection. To be a contributing part of this effort requires that our Lord possesses a key place in our hearts. (Both Voris and Marshall refer to JPII and John XXIII as saints - big red flag!). Springdale, AR Im sure some people reading this comment section of louies fine blog will be scratching their heads thinking so many different opinions on the same topic whats it all about.. Im not talking about those who comment but readers of louies blog who might just be coming across these topics for the first time. Did the FSSP help the SSPX in this injustice? Rules or commands should be in play, and they need to be, but these are not what are supposed to define the home. Those who favour the Society of St. Pius X will not change their minds. Seattle, WA The Eichman twins join their older brother as an FSSP priest, with a younger Eichman brother still training at the seminary. I found it on the New Liturgical Movement website. Providence, RI Shame on the FSSP! You have entered an incorrect email address! . Voris, by contrast, runs every last word through a filter; avoiding anything that might conflict with more personal concerns; the likes of which well address a little later. http://archives.sspx.org/archbishop_lefebvre/1974_declaration_of_archbishop_lefebvre.htm, A really good film about todays saint St Joseph of Cupertino well worth a watch One single Traditional Catholic College in the whole United States operating with the approval of the local ordinary was just too much to ask. The founding document of the FSSP contains lies and heresy. Edmonton, AB Checks can be written to "Mission Tradition." New - Meal Train - Calling all those who want to grow in love of neighbor! We are not just dealing with infighting we are dealing with Satanic attacks by false brethren and wolves in sheeps clothing. That is a lie. Positively, perspective and vigor can also be reclaimed by personal initiative and vigilance to make sure we do not get into ruts with the things that are supposed to be most important, that we are mindful of the obvious in such matters (kind of ironic when you hear it said that way). I dont know what it means to be disobedient to the Pope even when doing so would help to save souls. What would such an occasion look like for me as a layman? But I realized, and it actually had nothing to do w/sedevacantism, that me and mine WERE Nancy Pelosi. The rules and commands originated with a person. If I found myself in a place where only an SSPX or Norvus Ordo were available, I would choose the SSPX, hands down, and I would know it was valid thanks to Fr. I do get it that your comment here was not meant to be an intensive treatise. French-speaking Chaplain Father Hubert Bizard. And yes, most especially under the duress we all endure. In the event that a request were made in the future, the present restrictions on Father Sagutos ministry could only be lifted after our normal review process, which would have to include a recommendation from the Ministerial Review Board of the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis, Archbishop Hebda added. The Society is not in an irregular canonical status that is a made-up term by SSPX supporters. The majority of sedes beleive the new mass invalid due to the new rites doubtful priestly ordinations possibly invalid and majority beleive episcopal consecreations in the new rite invalid. This side of eternity, there will always be a certain obscurity to Faith because God wishes that we walk in trust of Him; He wants to lead us because our sanctification is His work with our cooperation. The Missive. Gerard Saguto, FSSP and Fr. God bless. What went on at Fisher Moore College is not known. The financial problems of the college were not of the Presidents making. Father John Marcus Berg, F.S.S.P. these are mostly priests that *belonged* to the SSPX. I talk to a lot of people In and about the Fraternity. I saw how they themselves maintained true & loyal friendships (which I happen to know continue to this day,) with fellow Catholics who were at odds with them w/regard to these matters. Now there is the objective case of schism, and the legal/subjective case of schism. They are within the Church. Which means that because these others dont beleive certain things it gets people start to say you shiuldnt believe this or that. Heck, they dont even tell every person they meet to avoid the Novus Ordo! Allentown, PA In allowing myself and others to comment even though louie most probably disagrees with certain things (speaking for myself) shows that louie has great charity and isnt controlled by anyone. The real truth of the matter is that some of them are not doing or saying what piokolby wants them to do or say. Even more so, things that are most important also have an uncanny ability to expose our personal limits and insecurities, which we find threatening as they leave us open to criticism, and so engaging them carries its own risks. The Church is in a grave crisis, and we all have to make our own way for the sake of our souls and those of our families. http://sspx.org/, Dear marian, Sarasota, FL Now I suppose he is throwing darts at it. Philadelphia, PA Michael Saguto passed away in New York, New York. Naples, FL Francis called a protestant minister his brother bishopthe man has an entirely different concept of sacraments, sin, church, juristiction, etc. Church. I am really sorry that I ever recommended them to anyone ever- which, sadly, I did. hi, scott, FSSP Events Grega's departure from the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter could have been given. Liars and cowards is what the two I spoke to wereand one was the former head of the order here in America. Member of the traditionalist Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. Gerard Saguto, FSSP and Fr. Look more closely into the factions and personalities in and around Irving that split up Fisher Moore College around 2012-14, and you just may find your answers as to whose motives now motivate whom. The error can be found in document ecclesia dei in 1988 and was made more clear in 2003 with the FSSP constitutions. It has all been discussed in detail in the comment section on the above link, about half way down the page. Vennari & I agree on (almost) nothing, obviouslybut I see that hes not gotten involved in this most recent Voris-shtick. 777 Forest St., St. Paul, MN 55106 Wolfe. I cant believe it! Don't forget to buy yourself a copy here! De maria. Dear de Maria, Kansas City/Westwood, KS Nor are they interested in arguments. Barbara, Denver, CO I have learned much from your links over the past several months and appreciate your insights. 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